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Eufloria => Eufloria Classic => Eufloria Classic Mods => Topic started by: IDemon on July 30, 2010, 02:00:44 AM

Title: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on July 30, 2010, 02:00:44 AM
Hi All,
None of you know me mainly because I'm a lingerer and I dont often register on forums unless I specifically wish to be involved in a convo or feel I have something to offer, now as my first post is this you may have guessed its the latter of the two.

I'm currently in the process of making an online level editor, much like Euclid or whatever its called in the sense that like his mine will not offer a graphical editing system, mainly because that would be a huge task to undertake and I'm not kean on working for free.

So what will it have?
As a start I have already added in the global vars to allow overal game settings and control this includes
-Min and max enemy empires
-Basic win/lose system (I will expand on it but not until the basic functionality is done, at which point it might end up being donate if you want more features as I have a rl and I require a reason to ignore my beautiful finacee for hours, basicly make it worth my time)
-Flower control (if its possible to get flowers on the level)
-Asteroid min seperation
-Backing color for level

Asteroids settings have also been started on and so far I have layed out the system to support the following...
-Asteroid naming (to allow scripting events later)
-X,Y positioning (this may get a guide feature later to assist in placement)
-Asteroid properties (energy,str,speed)
-Tree cap per asteroid
-Asteroid starting owner
-Asteroid size
-Asteroid send distance
-Asteroid starting seedlings
-Asteroid starting plants (offense and defense)

Thats as far as I have got so far, by default each accoun will only be allowed to make one map at a time donators will be given unlimited amount as they will be covering the costs of running this little project (in addition to myself obviously who is paying for the server, hosting, bandwidth and obviously my time)

I will update as I go along letting you know whats being added and as soon as the alpha version produces its first fully working map I will release a beta for you all to play with.

Additionally I would like some beta testers to work with me on this so any volunteers?
As a beta tester I will ensure you get full access to every feature through out the lifetime of the site regardless of donating to help cover the costs of maintaining and developing it.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Pilchard123 on July 30, 2010, 07:25:57 AM
Just to get this said first and hopefully avoid a war, or somehing. What follows is not said out of malice because you are trying to 'steal' my idea (which wasn't mine to begin with), or because I want EUCLiD to be the only level editor around. I don't really care what happens to it, it was a practice project to help me learn visual basic. I am still working on it, but if it dies, I don't care. No, I say this to prevent you wasting your time an money and effort.

As plans go, this is bad. Not so much the application itself, but the idea of having to pay to be able to have more than one map in development.

Think for a minute: Most mappers around here are good enough to code the whole level themselves, even add whole new facets to the game (infected AI, gravity). They don't neeed a tool to do it for them. Less-good mappers can learn quickly from the threads here and studying others' maps. Now, you suggest making something to ease the work. Fine, do so.

Just don't ask for money.

Yes, I know that you can use it fine without paying, but you are limited to one map at a time. Notepad (or equivalent) is 100% free (ignoring the cost of the computer, but how can you make levels without a computer), and you can make as many levels as you hard drive allows at once. Given a choice between Notepad and your app, I know I'd pick Notepad. It's free, works instantly and freely with patches, and can use every part of the code.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: By all means make a level creator/editor. Just don't expect people to pay for things if they can legally get them for free. Which they can.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Bonobo on July 30, 2010, 08:41:37 AM
Yes, I think that Pichard123 is very, very right.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on July 30, 2010, 09:19:22 AM
well thats nice but I will go ahead and make it as I'm not learning development I do it for a living I want an editor so I can make levels myself but I thought I would share it and something is better than nothing at the end of the day, pritchard you said you dont know when and how long between updates on your program and the fact its a download bother me, sorry but why should I wait I had the idea before I saw your and thusly thought I should mention it, still being very different in essense as mine is accessible anywhere as it will be an online interface and thus have constant costs behind it but it also means you can work from anywhere even a mobile device and I dont think you will provide that will you?
So yes I will have a donate button and yes those who choose to give will be rewarded as isnt that only fair, if people like my tool enough to do so then that will be their choice and it is their choice to use it or not, I'm not going to force anyone but if I think I can do a good job of it and do it in a timely fasion why shouldn't I?
Its not like your the only one who had thought of it and I dont much care for the bugs in what you have done fair enough if you fix it later but when is that later?

Still notepad wont make a level for you you have to learn to code my system will rule out most of that, which is why I'm making it it will generate the code in a procedural way allow you to link it and update it easily so fixing issues in maps will be quicker and people can link their map once and provide all updates on that same link without having to attach files or download anything.

As I said I'm not expecting people to pay unless they want me to add features to it that I dont already plan to then its kind of a you scratch my back I'll make an update for you and everyone else that does the things you want that I didnt put in.
And I pay for my applications because free ones normally suck, I pay for my games because free ones suck... I paid for this game which helps them make more which is what I want... Did you not pay for this game? Did you not buy it because its what you wanted, because you saw someone had worked hard to make something you would enjoy? do they not deserve it for their work? and thus dont I? of course I'm not forcing you to almost like a demo I guess except I'm not stating how much you have to pay donate a penny still gets the same as pound as they say every little helps.

So like it or not I will do it for my own benefit and that of a few of my friends who are playing now due to my constant babbling about the game if other decide to use it then I will not stop them and I dont think its fair of you to try to either bit greedy if you ask me I'm putting my money into my project already as I have the hosting and sub domains sorted for it and have already made up the database for it and a basic design layout, I will start coding it tomorrow so if you dont want to use it feel free not to read this thread and to ignore any work I do on it I will still be around the board as I enjoy the game and enjoy seeing what people think and their experiences of it.


Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on July 30, 2010, 02:55:44 PM
Making an editor sounds like fun! haha I just spent the last two hours making a VB one myself (since I'm waiting for Alex to add some things (work some god-like magic) so that I can make my level).  Made the UI, and it can make a level with asteroids and you can change the global variables. Not quite sure how to go about making the level logic part since that's completely up to who ever is making the level, but w/e I had fun making the program, I'm just adding some things that make it a bit more practical and better looking, and not something that I just threw together, oh wait, I did... meh

If anyone wants to try it out, I'll have a complete version in the next few days prolly if anyone wants to use it for the heck of it. (oh and it's free! lol)
Well, that is if I can find the free time.  Stupid summer homework... *grumble grumble*
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on July 30, 2010, 06:52:35 PM
I'll gladly give it a go and see if it works any better than the other one that on here, which doesnt do that much I must admit.
I'll post some screens of mine later today as I have some of the ui worked out already but been focused on features and code so far as to make a user friendly idiot proof application (or website in my case) is a lot of work and a lot of varible checking adding friendly errors for any problems and so on but still I'd like to see what you came up with, I would go and make it in vb.net but it kinda defeats the objective of what I'm doing, as I want an editor I can use at work as well as at home and access to my levels from either aswell and my design gives me that unlike any vb app which is local to only the one machine its installed on and I dont think my work would be ok with me having some random application on their pc's as it could be malicious, where as a website is no issue.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on July 31, 2010, 01:24:08 AM
Yeah, sure.  I'll post it when I get it done.  I forgot how much of a pain in the arse it is to load variables from a text document into VB, I should really figure out how to use the SQL servers, but I'm too lazy  

edit: though you prolly shouldn't be playing while on company time ;)
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on July 31, 2010, 10:34:24 AM
I dont play in company time but I do on my lunch which is my time as its unpaid lol.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on July 31, 2010, 01:35:31 PM
Well, mines' coming along.  I've got 35 global variables you can change, and I'm adding more as I go.  You can add asteroids, right now I can only put one in, but I'm working on more.  It can save the file info.  It can build the variables into a working level.  Right now I'm working on getting it to load files into the editor.  So far I've spent about 6 or 7 hours on it.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on July 31, 2010, 09:47:49 PM
Nice I've just been planning and structuring the database as mine will have to support user as well as the mapping info so I've been preping all the user functions, email verification, password encryption and all that, the level parts of it are pretty simple beyond that as its all moduler and as such you can create your system in the same way you will find it easy to make the code, at the moment mine can support an unlimited number of asteroids due to this also an unlimited number of trees per asteroid, all can be configured individually in addition to mass creation.
I wish I knew 35 different global variables that were worth setting I have litterally gone with the basics that alter the gameplay and some of the look but nothing else, can I ask which have you included from the reference? as when I searched through I couldnt see that many.

Still sounds good, can't honestly say I've put in the same hours as you but then I have a lot of things to do as me and the misses are moving to a new place so I've had to repaint, shift furniture, you know stand moving home stuff.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on August 01, 2010, 03:01:27 AM
I have included these so far:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 01, 2010, 03:16:31 AM
I see arent some of those restrictive?
e.g. asteroids maxnumberoftrees is a overal setting where as you can jusy let them set it per asteroid basically meaning they can choose to have them all the same or not by setting it.
I'm unsure of the structure spawn times and I havent put in editiong of it as not sure if its wise to allow it, dont want people making maps that crash the game or something along those lines, but then I guess I have never tried them so cant comment.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on August 01, 2010, 04:14:33 AM
The only thing that I've found that crashes the game is the way the asteroids are set up position wise.  It's very finicky about where you can put asteroids and the generation of asteroid belts.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 01, 2010, 11:28:56 AM
Yeah I have not included the asteroid belt thing for that reason and the problems it can cause if badly placed as its not an easy thing to structure and the editing of the asteroids in the belt.. well I just cant find a way to do that individually so I just left the option out.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Ytaker on August 02, 2010, 10:34:19 AM
Could you develop a graphical editor? You could contact the developers, and ask them for funding. They have limited time for coding and such, and if you would be willing to develop a complete map editor for them, which they could connect to Eufloria, and stay around to correct any conflicts, you might be able to get some funding. Their outsourced map developer. It would also increase their speed at developing new content for Eufloria, give them more free time, so if you're good, it'd definitely be worth it for them.

They intend to develop a ps3 version later, so you'd have more work to fix any problems with that.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Terrial on August 02, 2010, 04:22:44 PM
Haha, you know Ytaker, I'm just an 18 year old guy going to start college soon.  I'm just doing this because my summer has been so incredibly dull.  That and I just love programming.  A graphical editor is in a whole different league than what I can make.  IDemon may be able to, but it's still very difficult to make on your own.  I imagine the easiest way to make one would be to code it in C, and all I know is VB.  As for funding I'm not sure they have much to give as this was originally just a project they were doing for a contest and if they were to actually pay for a graphical editor they would go to someone who could make a very nice one.  If Alex and Rudolf have the free time they could probably make one themselves seeing as how they already made the game and have the programming knowledge.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 02, 2010, 06:03:14 PM
@Ytaker
Actually I had a brainstorming session over the weekend with one of my friends and thanks to his unique way of thinking I actually have a plan to introduce a graphical editing system admittedly dont expect anything to amazing as I'm still limited on time and its not easy to create it and be flexible, but the basic version will be available in the next few weeks and donators will have access to a larger version (mutli page graphical editing rather than the one designated size play field I am giving in the basic free for all version) I will post some screens soon
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Ytaker on August 02, 2010, 10:50:56 PM
"Haha, you know Ytaker, I'm just an 18 year old guy going to start college soon.  I'm just doing this because my summer has been so incredibly dull.  "

Same, slow, slow summer.

"If Alex and Rudolf have the free time they could probably make one themselves seeing as how they already made the game and have the programming knowledge."

That's the thing about outsourcing. They are probably making a fair bit of money from sales of Eufloria. But they have limited time, and their own lives to live. A graphical editor is quite hard to make. Since Idemon is already making it, they could buy it and his services off him cheaply, more cheaply than whatever hours would have to be put in to to make it, which could be better spent elsewhere. And we'd gain the benefit of another tool to play with, and the value of the game would be seriously enhanced. People love games where you can play around with them. Like Neverwinter Nights, or Oblivion.

"and if they were to actually pay for a graphical editor they would go to someone who could make a very nice one. "

Which actually would be quite costly. It's up to them, of course. And there may be other considerations, it may be easier than I'd thought for them to make a graphical editor. Idemon may not want to sell his idea. Worth trying, though.

"Actually I had a brainstorming session over the weekend with one of my friends and thanks to his unique way of thinking I actually have a plan to introduce a graphical editing system admittedly dont expect anything to amazing as I'm still limited on time and its not easy to create it and be flexible, but the basic version will be available in the next few weeks and donators will have access to a larger version (mutli page graphical editing rather than the one designated size play field I am giving in the basic free for all version) I will post some screens soon"

Sounds cool, and awesome. I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 03, 2010, 06:44:20 AM
Main layout
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4854925560_8a4483638e_z.jpg)
Map Settings
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4854304063_b5d16d5ef7_z.jpg)
Graphical Map Editor
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4854303409_dd05441fd5_z.jpg)

Sorry these dont look very polished I'm still just getting all the pages design work done then I will be adding the server side programming to make it all function for beta testing so it will still be a while before and normal peeps get to use it but as I said in my first post I still need beta testers for when the basics are all working.

I also understand at this point other might take the idea behind how I have got the visual editor to work in my system for their own, I do not oppose this as long as I am given due credit but be warned it may look simple but the actual coding of the feature actually tends to be quite complex but if you wish to know more ask and I will do my best to direct you in how to create a similar interface in vb script.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: InTouch on August 03, 2010, 06:55:10 AM
it looks great already ;D i love the name. sign me up i need to make a map of a specific shape anyway
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 03, 2010, 07:50:03 AM
Lol yeah the name is pretty nice, you can blame my partner in crime for that one, in his witty wisdom he came up with that, he's also been remastering all the graphics I produce for the system to give it a bit more of a polished and proffesional look, I dont do things in half measures.  :-D
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: InTouch on August 03, 2010, 08:54:00 AM
Well tell me when it's ready and I'll test away
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Pilchard123 on August 03, 2010, 06:10:58 PM
I'll help test it, if you want. I'd like to, and it'll probably be better and faster developed than EUCLiD (You know what you're doing, and I'm still learning, so...), so I'll help it along all I can.

Of course, if you want to tell me where to get off (after what I said earlier), I'm fine with that too.

EDIT: Why do you have to use underscores as spaces? Is it anything to do with the designer, like the database can't cope with spaces? I only ask because Eufloria doesn't have any trouble with them, so I'm wondering why you need to use them...

EDIT AGAIN: Never mind. Found out now.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 04, 2010, 06:55:21 PM
Lol yeah as you program I thought you would catch on to why I've added hat restriction quite early it just guarantees applicable file names from downloading and insertion into the program.

I have no troubles with you also being a beta tester, I dont hold grudges, to old for that childish sort of action and when help is offered who am I to refuse? you would most probably be the best beta tester as you obviously know how to code and would also understand the lua produced so would spot any flaws almost immediately.

Unfortunately now I am without internet at home until friday when I have an engineer coming out to install the line at my new property, I run a local server so I can continue development but dont expect any massive changes in the next few days as I just wont hae the time, but on saturday/sunday moving house move should be complete and I will resume construction of the system.
I also have some nice gfx now for the graphical map designer section as my partner in crime CutotuPanda is being very proactive with replacing my crappy graphics with his much better looking ones.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Pilchard123 on August 04, 2010, 07:19:37 PM
Ok, thanks, although I'm not a fantastic programmer, nor do I understand the LUA as well as some people here (Annikk, I'm looking at you), because I only started making maps within the last couple of months, if that.

Isn't this great...I'll be without internet from Friday until next Sunday-ish, unless you count my DSi, which has trouble displaying anything more advanced than coloured text.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 04, 2010, 09:31:44 PM
I'll still be online myself but like now it will be via my work computer so I cant do to much beyond respond to posts, you never know I might be able to roll out an update if I find time to make one in the next couple of days but I highly doubt that looking at my current schedule, but I will deffinately work over the weekend to provide some of the basic functionality to the beta testers.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: InTouch on August 04, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
sweet. cant wait
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 10, 2010, 08:43:09 AM
Well the move went well and me and the misses are all settled in so thats good, on more related news I have got the basics up now with a working login and registration system which allows me to create the members functionality in the system.
So not a huge amount of work got done but at least the vitals are now sorted and I will start getting the advanced map editor done (advanced editor is the none graphical version which allows completely custom development.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 16, 2010, 09:24:40 PM
The advanced editor pages are now coming together quite nicely.
We still only have 2 beta testers, any chance of a few more ? preferably a couple with lots of design knowledge and couple with none as this would give the best median results so we know what does and doesnt need improvement and what needs to be added and what needs to be removed etc.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Pilchard123 on August 16, 2010, 09:40:39 PM
Who are they? InTouch and me?

Btw, I haven't had any notification of it being open for testing , but that may be because it's not finished yet? How will you let us know when it is? You'd better PM me, 'cause I never rarely the email I gave to register here.
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: BC wins on August 16, 2010, 10:01:41 PM
I would like to test
i am quite new to lua and programing in general i started this around a week ago
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: Pilchard123 on August 17, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
I may be computer-less for a while. Vista has decided it's a fake. I foresee a lot of whingeing to MS in my near future.

EDIT : Fixed. A lot quicker than I thought it would be. And a bunch of other problems are gone too. :)
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: InTouch on August 18, 2010, 06:26:11 AM
well i have little experience in design so i can help with the median XP and yes om me when its done plox :D
Title: Re: Creating Online Map Maker
Post by: IDemon on August 19, 2010, 08:38:50 AM
@Pilch I will pm you, sorry progress has been a bit slow been a bit overly bust past few days but I'll get my ass in gear and finish up the few bits that need it so its ready for testing.

Everyone who posted before this post will be pm'd for beta.