Author Topic: EXTREME PWN LAZ0RZ!!12 (Read 29610 times)

annikk.exe · « **on:** January 17, 2011, 10:06:00 AM »

Version 1.01 (previous had 212 downloads)

Difficulty: Hard.
To win: Help your Empire to conquer all asteroids.
Defeat occurs if: Your empire loses all its asteroids.

This level is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from regular Eufloria. Therefore, PLEASE READ THIS!

How to play:

1. You control a single laser mine. You do not directly get to control any seedlings or asteroids. Your job is to help your empire's seedlings colonise the galaxy and destroy the enemy.
2. Left click a location to move there.
3. To attack seedlings orbiting an asteroid, typically you must first left-click the asteroid and allow your mine to bump into it once.
4. Asteroids will flash to indicate they have a power up for you. Bump into them with your mine to collect the power up.
5. Your health is displayed in the top left. Bump into a friendly asteroid to heal.
7. Don't just send your mine to an asteroid and wait for it to kill stuff - your mine will probably die. Instead, zoom right in and "dogfight" with the seedlings. Avoid letting them shoot you too much.
8. Think you've won? Victory seems like a formality? Don't count on it. :>
9. It's recommended to disable tooltips in the Options menu before playing this.

Thanks:

My friends Simon and Tony for their invaluable assistance with beta-testing this level during the early, bug-ridden days.
AWS for beta testing and feedback that turned out to be crucial for gameplay adjustments toward the middle of the beta testing stage.
Threephi for proving the existence of, and finding a solution to, a rare bug that I had not previously envisioned. Version 1.01 contains his fix - thanks dude!

Sniped50 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2011, 02:27:39 AM »

Dude... Seeing as how I've seen your other machanics at work, I'd have to say I've ran out of words to describe the awesomeness (hey, there's one!) of this.

It's simply...
...

...

...yeah, that. Yeah, it's that cool!!!

Oh, and if anyone has trouble getting it to work because it says "Object reference is not set to instance of object", upgrade to v2.07.
NOW.

annikk.exe · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:00:09 AM »

Thanks dude. :> What version were you on before? I totally lost track of which commands don't work in the earlier versions :p

Sniped50 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:27:07 AM »

I was actually on v2.05 because I kept putting off downloading 2.07.

I know, I should go burn myself soon...

As to what command was the problem, well... I don't know. But it was definitely something with the new game mechanics you put in. All the other things you made (gravity engine, parallax engine, etc), those all worked great on 2.05.

Avaguard · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:24:25 AM »

its good real good

awesome to see some variety

annikk.exe · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:47:36 AM »

Cheers :>

Bonobo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:21:24 AM »

Whoa. Took me some time (and one life) to find out how this works. And then … the enemy quickly had grown enormous armies and pwned me. <sigh>

<edit>

And, I dunno whether I’d ingested too much spice and thus was hallucinating or what … they were singing “all your base are belong to us”

</edit>

BTW: 2.07, new game mode

Avaguard · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:37:54 AM »

hmm iv gotton a crash or 2 $:-\$

annikk.exe · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:09:14 PM »

That's weird. What happens when it crashes? Does the whole of Eufloria crash or..? Are you using v2.07?

threephi · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2011, 04:02:17 PM »

The creativity and novelty in this level leaves me in awe... completely brilliant! I could go on effusively but I want to point out a bug that can prevent victory or ensure defeat...

I've played three times so far, lost the first one crushingly, won the next but only after tediously working around the bug, and couldn't win the last due to it.

For some reason, this level seems especially prone to a rare bug I have seen a handful of times in the past on other levels, whereby an asteroid will have active trees belonging to an empire which is not the empire that owns the asteroid. I do not know what brings this condition about and I have so far been unable to witness it happen in the act; perhaps it happens when the defending empire plants a new tree on the roots of the tree being invaded just at the instant the asteroid is lost? In any event, after playing through this level three times now, each time I have ended up with several asteroids with this schizophrenic condition. The misplaced trees will spawn seedlings of the empire which owns the tree and not the one that owns the asteroid, and crucially, seedlings will not attack a friendly tree even if that tree is on an enemy asteroid. All this is essentially a curiosity, but the real problem comes when all three trees on an asteroid belong to an empire which does not own the asteroid.

The first time I saw this, it was my asteroid with enemy trees on it. The enemy infected AI sent his seedlings to conquer it, but finding no trees to attack, kept accumulating seedlings and soon had a huge force squatting there. This was late in the game when the enemy AI had only a few asteroids left, so due to your nefarious coding these were enemy super seedlings. The problem was that my friendly infected AI kept sending seedlings to the slaughter in defense of this asteroid, and would not attack any of the enemy's remaining asteroids to finish the game. Landing in a sea of over 1500 enemy super seedlings vaporized the friendlies instantly as they trickled in. I was eventually able to overcome this impasse by carefully placing my mine (fully upgraded) at the proper distance from the asteroid, and in the path of arriving enemy seedlings, so it could gradually zap down the enemy seedlings yet avoid being counterattacked. It took a while.

The second time I saw this, the condition was reversed--there were three friendly trees on an enemy asteroid. This was an unwinnable condition since my friendly AI kept sending seedlings to conquer the asteroid but was unable to since seedlings won't attack friendly trees.

My suspicion is that the underlying bug (trees that don't belong to the asteroid owner being able to exist) is something in Eufloria itself, but you are certainly better suited to judge that or know if there is anything in your code that makes it more likely.

Anyway like I said this is a truly great and innovative level that opens up new gameplay possibilities for Eufloria... well done yet again!

annikk.exe · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:55:18 PM »

Thanks Threephi, and sorry to hear about that bug.
I did see it once during testing (which lasted for 3 weeks and involved the map being played through dozens of times). It only happened once though. I couldn't really see how any of my code could produce that effect, although certainly it's the only map I've seen the bug in. It's very strange... and very unfortunate that you ran into it twice in a row. Has anyone else seen this problem?

threephi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2011, 12:34:50 AM »

Maybe it's due to all the hours I've played Eufloria but I have seen that bug a handful of times previously on other levels, including the standard ones, albeit under previous Eufloria versions. Normally it is very very rare. Lazorz involves a lot of automated fighting over asteroids between the two AI's, so that is probably what makes it more prominent. For all three trees to be wrong probably requires the bug to occur multiple times on the one asteroid, which if my theory is correct about what causes the bug, means it would have to switch hands a few times.

After the bug happened that second time and prevented me from winning, I ended up opening the lua console and started messing with the bugged asteroid's properties, to see if I could manually switch ownership of the trees, but I have only a very rudimentary familiarity with Eufloria lua code and after five minutes of digging around I couldn't come up with the right property... is it possible to build in code that would check for and correct that condition? I ended up changing the asteroid's owner property but ideally there would be a separate tree owner property, or failing that, some way to destroy the trees and remake them?

I played through another time last night and the three-tree problem did not occur, and interestingly the enemy AI kicked my patootie once he got your devilish late-game super seedling upgrade. The previous time I won, when the three-tree bug occurred, having to slowly siphon down that bugged planet with all his seedlings on it also allowed time for my own forces to build up so they could counteract his super army once the bugged asteroid; this time my allied forces were not as well developed and he steamrolled right over me.

annikk.exe · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2011, 12:50:09 AM »

I did a similar thing with the console when I spotted that bug. I think I managed to change the asteroid to the correct owner and the game proceeded from there, but the trouble would come with detecting if that situation has occurred.

Sorry to hear my AI is giving you trouble... (hehe..)
Have you considered going on a flower-pilllaging spree behind enemy lines? :>

threephi · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:53:12 AM »

Quote from: annikk.exe on February 03, 2011, 12:50:09 AM

I did a similar thing with the console when I spotted that bug. I think I managed to change the asteroid to the correct owner and the game proceeded from there, but the trouble would come with detecting if that situation has occurred.

Just played the level again, this time with an eye to watch for the tree bug. It happened at least 15 times, probably more, and while I wasn't able to catch it in the actual moment, it clearly does NOT happen (or at least not only happen) when the asteroid hits 0 energy and changes ownership. I wasn't able to tell which faction replanted the tree due to the large numbers of seedlings on asteroids under combat and the fact that all seedlings are considered enemies as far as the asteroid tooltips are concerned. There were at least five asteroids with the bug, probably more as I observed several of them convert all the trees correctly upon being conquered afterwards. Once again there was eventually one asteroid with all three trees wrong, so that makes three out of four playthroughs where that has occurred. Strangely, I also observed an asteroid under attack whose energy level stayed at max even though it was being infected. That asteroid had a mis-matched tree planted on it but the roots being actively infected matched the asteroid owner.

Quote

Sorry to hear my AI is giving you trouble... (hehe..)
Have you considered going on a flower-pilllaging spree behind enemy lines? :>

That's my standard strategy, of course

It's not so much the infected AI (we are old friends) as the end-game super seed flood when the enemy AI is reduced to 10 asteroids. I think it might be a bit over the top, would you consider rebalancing that element a little? I have yet to withstand that phase of the game once the enemy gets three hundred super seeds on one asteroid and my friendlies keep charging into destruction, that is, in the absence of a triple-buggy asteroid as we have been discussing. A handful of endgame enemy super seeds can dominate even a fully upgraded laser mine, so it also feels to me like it would balance the level a little more if the rewards were a little more frequent and a ranged a little higher.

In case I haven't mentioned it enough, I really really like this level

But I think it might be just a little too difficult.

threephi · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:55:32 AM »

BTW I am curious if anyone else is seeing this issue, or has defeated this level without a triple-buggy asteroid?

annikk.exe · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:59:05 AM »

Well, I've beaten it loads of times without seeing the bug.. Which version of Eufloria are you on?
I am super glad you like it but disappointed to hear that my creation is not behaving the way I intended.
I wonder if the 2 AI's are arriving at an asteroid at the same time, and both planting trees, or something..

threephi · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2011, 03:41:09 AM »

v2.07... I've managed to see very young mismatched trees and they always occur on an asteroid where a battle is taking place and a tree has been destroyed so the roots are available for replanting, never on a new unplanted asteroid.

threephi · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2011, 03:43:33 AM »

Given how frequently I have seen the bug occur, annikk, are you certain there was no buggy asteroid those times you've won? Of course since you wrote the darned thing you do have an advantage

annikk.exe · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2011, 04:18:40 AM »

I'm fairly colourblind, so I would be unlikely to be notice. But none of the other beta testers noticed anything like that either...

So are you saying that it's frequent that 1 or 2 trees are of the wrong faction?

And then every now and again all the trees are wrong, and that's what causes the problem ?

threephi · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2011, 05:23:35 AM »

I've seen individual wrong trees at least a dozen to twenty times every time I've played this level, compared to maybe ten times total on all other levels combined, across over 650 hours playing Eufloria according to Steam

. Three out of a total four times playing this level, I have seen one asteroid have every tree on it belong to the wrong player, which causes the game issues I described originally. An asteroid can have one, two, or three incorrect trees on it, but significant consequences only occur when all three are incorrect.

One of the two possible cases (friendly planet with three enemy trees) makes it easier to win since the enemy keeps sending seeds to an asteroid he cannot conquer. Even though your allied AI keeps sending seedlings to their doom against vastly superior enemy numbers on that asteroid, it is only a part of your total force. So you can bide your time carefully using the laser mine to hover just outside the attack range of the enemy seedlings orbiting that asteroid to slowly reduce their numbers. Meanwhile, your own forces gather strength to the point where when you finally get rid of all the seedlings on the buggy asteroid, you have enough to overcome the ferocious late-game super seedling counterattack.

The other possible case (enemy planet with three friendly trees) is impossible to win since the reverse is true--you can never conquer that asteroid since your seeds won't attack a friendly tree.

My experience has been that without case #1, the level becomes so hard once the super seedling counterattack gains steam that it's not so much fun

flashfire · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2011, 05:30:50 AM »

Quote from: threephi on February 03, 2011, 03:43:33 AM

Given how frequently I have seen the bug occur, annikk, are you certain there was no buggy asteroid those times you've won? Of course since you wrote the darned thing you do have an advantage

I was a beta tester for this map and I didn't notice the bug at all, I played 10 times And although fairly noob I found the end seedling rush do able using some missdirection( learned from past abuses at the hands if annikk's infected AI)

Mr Frank · « **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2011, 04:32:17 PM »

The AI takes FOREVER to finish the game, holy seed. I think it lasted three or four hours, but the game was pretty much in the bag within one. The late game was tedious. The AI's stupidity about splitting its forces is great when I'm fighting against it, but a pain in the butt when I'm waiting for it. I'd love to see something like this on a smaller map. A giant "final boss" army appearing from their rear asteroid would be cool and fun to deal with once the mine was fully upgraded. The spawning of very powerful seedlings just felt obnoxious and drew the endgame out even more, but maybe that was just because I bit off more than I wanted to chew in terms of play time.

However, that's just whining. This is technically impressive and extremely cool. I had LOADS of fun in the early game and will play any others like it that I see.

annikk.exe · « **Reply #22 on:** May 31, 2011, 05:31:17 PM »

Thanks for the feedback! :> Points noted.

threephi · « **Reply #23 on:** June 01, 2011, 02:18:43 PM »

Funny that this thread has a few new posts in it, since I just started playing this level again recently (and loving it, and beating it quite handily

.

But running into the wrong-tree bug again got me thinking, and combing through the Infected AI code, and I came up with a simple fix

Rather than clog up this thread, and since it has to do with the Infected AI engine itself, I have made a lengthy post about it in the Annikk's Mechanics thread.

annikk.exe · « **Reply #24 on:** June 01, 2011, 04:21:21 PM »

Threephi,

Thankyou for this!! This is awesome. :> I've briefly read over your post on the Mechanics thread, and will study it properly later on and try out the demo you attached. It's really cool that you made it all the way "inside" so to speak, and saw how the engine works. Kind of hard to explain but it's like a special magical place that (up until now) only I've been to. :P That sounds pretty cheesy I guess but eh..

Anyway.. thanks!! :D

Pilchard123 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:05:58 PM »

Quote from: annikk.exe on June 01, 2011, 04:21:21 PM

That sounds pretty cheesy I guess but eh..

Pretty cheesy? What is your definition of very cheesy then?

On second thought, don't tell me, I might implode.

annikk.exe · « **Reply #26 on:** June 01, 2011, 07:32:38 PM »

Updated with the fix. :>

By the way, would you guys have any interest in an Extreme Pwn version of EverSwarm? IE with random levels each time you play?

Aino · « **Reply #27 on:** June 01, 2011, 10:40:45 PM »

That would be awesome and replayable

threephi · « **Reply #28 on:** June 02, 2011, 01:38:33 AM »

Quote from: annikk.exe on June 01, 2011, 04:21:21 PM

Threephi,

Thankyou for this!! This is awesome. :> I've briefly read over your post on the Mechanics thread, and will study it properly later on and try out the demo you attached. It's really cool that you made it all the way "inside" so to speak, and saw how the engine works. Kind of hard to explain but it's like a special magical place that (up until now) only I've been to. That sounds pretty cheesy I guess but eh..

Anyway.. thanks!!

You're welcome

It's only a sliver of repayment though considering how many outstanding levels you've given us...

I can't say that I've plumbed all the mysteries of the infected horde (I only barely skimmed the rallying point code and most of the neighbor assessment, just enough to realize they don't influence tree planting) but the overall structure is what impressed me... it seems easy to extend it or modify it in the future. Maybe I'll geek out on it a little more in the mechancs thread

Spicing up Everswarm sounds great! I've given it a few plays and success seems quite dependent on starting position, you either have enough room to expand, or get boxed in and swarmed pretty quickly.